There was some discussion on this blog last week and considerably more debate on the Facebook kendo groups about an incident that took place at the European Championships in Berlin, where a competitor allegedly threw his opponent in an illegal and premeditated manner.
Although I was a referee at the event, I was unable to offer an informed comment, as I had been concentrating on my own court at the time. Like many of the people who wanted to discuss this issue, I only briefly saw it on the YouTube clip through Facebook.
Opinion was divided. A few people expressed the view that kendo was a part of budo and that we should be prepared to man-up and take a few knocks for the benefit of our spiritual development. The majority felt that it was reprehensible to put another person’s health and safety in jeopardy to win a shiai.
I was about to write that “kendo has a violent history”, but on reflection this is incorrect and certainly so following kendo’s post-war reintroduction. Kenjutsu has a very violent history where the aim was to take life with a sword. Gekken or “exhibition fencing” which was introduced in the Meiji period after the sword ban incorporated a range of taijutsu techniques. But as the ZNKR has it, “The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana (sword).” In line with, this trips, throws, arm-locks and strangles are illegal in modern kendo.
Before the war there was a legacy of hand-to-hand combat in kendo. Trips were common; men were removed and strangles applied. You can still see photographs like the one above showing this type of kendo and there is a clip of Mori Torao sensei using trips and ankle sweeps from an early US TV show. One or two Japanese universities still have special occasional practices where physical contact is allowed and I know teachers who have been known to introduce the odd “deashibarai” into kakarigeiko with favourite students. The throws of this type that I have seen, have always been below waist height and the recipients were supported as they fell.
From another perspective there has been some controversy over the levels of discipline imposed by seniors of Japanese university clubs on junior kendo students, which in several notable cases resulted in fatalities. Stringent action was taken against the kendo clubs concerned.
Whether we view kendo as a sport or martial art, we have a duty of care towards those that we teach or train with. We practise on hard floors and kendo bogu is not designed to accommodate break-falls. I would suggest that we concentrate on striking ippon correctly and leave the rough stuff to our friends in white pyjamas.
Unfortunately I can’t find the video of the European Kendo Championship incident again, but when I first saw it I immediately thought it was mostly unintended. It looked like an unfortunate combination of both Kendoka being in a strange position – One fallen over (and as far as I could tell still trying to regain balance) and the other moving towards them with some momentum, ending up with their legs over the other persons head whilst they stood up.
I’m not sure you could do this intentionally if you tried, but once my knee is healed up, I might have to give it a go on some beginners.
Seriously, that last bit was me kidding!
Personally I think it is important to learn about and experience a certain amount of jostling and contact in Kendo. However this must be done in a controlled and respectful (??) manner. I would hate to see it lose all of that feeling.
It was clearly intentional. The hungarian purposely kneeled and threw the other kenshi over him. I mean no disrespect, but if you really believe it was an accident you are being naive.
Personally, I think it was an irresponsible and shameful act, but that’s up for debate.
Thanks for another article sensei.
I feel like im a little 50-50 on this matter, but im not so sure where the edges in the ideals of sportsmanship and budo lie.
I feel that the extent of pushing has also gotten out of hand,
I wanted to know what your view on violent shoving in order to cause the opponent to receive hansoku, sometimes its so far up the chest its basically at neck height and because we also never fight with weight or height restrictions, the larger competitor would usually exert alot of force onto their smaller opponent.
Didnt hansoku used to be given to the participant who is shoving?
Ken – Hansoku was and still is the penalty for unecessary pushing. Normally if taiatari is associated with an attempt at a strike or is a one hit affair on the shiai jo border, then it is valid and counts against the person who is pushed out. For sustained or repeated pushing it should count as a hansoku against the pusher.
Just so you can see the event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Jmegn6GO0 looks fairly deliberate but I think instinctive rather than premeditated
I have to disagree Conrad, if your opponent moves towards you, by the very nature of your own posture you will be upright and as such in a perfect position for tsuba-zeriai…. the video clearly showed one bend forward and flip his opponent by straightening up, nothing unintentional in what I and many others saw. I have no issues receiving any hard knock if done in a legal and sporting manner, this video showed neither and should be highlighted as how not to behave.
Non, je suis désolé, je ne suis pas d’accord. Cet individu avait d’autres moyens de gérer de cette situation, ce qu’il a fait est dangereux. Les arbitres auraient dû l’exclure. Lorsque vous pratiquez une discipline quelle qu’elle soit, vous êtes responsable des techniques que vous apprenez, de même que vous êtes responsable de l’utilisation que vous en faite.
Just to keep non-French speakers in the loop – I beleive Laurent’s comment translates approximately to:-
“No I am sorry, but I disagree. This individual had other means to manage this situation, what he did is dangerous. The referees should have excluded (disqualified) him. Whatever discipline you practice, you are responsible for the techniques you learn as you are responsible for the use you make of them.”
Apologies for any errors.
> I believe Laurent’s comment translates approximately to […]
Yep, that’s how I read it as well.
Well I just saw the video right now and the first thought that came to my mind was: WTF!
I believe there is no way to do that unintentionally.
First of all, thanks for the video. I didn´t have the opportunity to see it before. Hard to believe such “technique” was applied by accident. Maybe it was automatic, unconscious…hard to say without knowing the “red” kendoka martial arts background.
Despite the presence of violence, in its very worst and miserable side, on Kendo history, and taking into account that Kendo is a combat sport. What I would expect from a Kendo National Team Member, no matter the grade, is to know and accept the established shiai rules.
And what I, definitely, expect from the referees is, knowing the rules, to do whatever it takes to ensure its fulfillment.
Possibly instinctive, but definitely deliberate. I can think of no situation in Kendo where one bends in such a manner for any reason. I echo the other comments that we are responsible for our techniques. If he fell at the wrong angle it could have easily been fatal. Kendo is certainly a Budo, but in a “spiritual” sense, not a “technical” one. We no longer cut at such an angle and in such a manner that would be practical or effective with a live sword. We do not practice with the stated aim of preparing to fight to the death. Our mindset may be there, but the manner of our technique is designed for sport. This is the reality of postwar kendo. This behavior sends to wrong message to younger kendoka who look to these competitors as an example.
I agree!!!
My word, it looks very intentional.
With reference to Julio’s point about referees. I would say that the match was facilitated by three very experienced shinpan, who as per the rules, immediately stopped the match, held a gogi and awarded hansoku against the perpetrator.
IDear Geoff, I´m pretty sure they are quite experienced and, for the record, it was not intended to point a lack of experience or knowledge. Having said that I would have been expected a bassoku instead.
PS,Maybe this is a good opportunity to review the differences, from a referee point of view, hansoku vs. bassoku. in order to allow a better understanding regarding the referees decision.
This point was touched on in a comment to my last post where Michel Geuntleur, one of the fukushin for this match had his view explained.
There aren’t really any rules to cover this situation. The hansoku they applied was probably the one for tripping or sweeping, this was clearly much more dangerous than that We also have the option to penalize for “offensive behaviour” which is a DQ. I believe that is what should have applied in this case. The post from Emmanuel D’Angelo didn’t really leave me with much insight into M. Geuntleur’s decision.
excuse my poor englisch.
ábel (the hungarian kendōka) was before ice hockey player.
No matter if it was intentional or not. but I would have expected the kendoka to show some modesty after the action. Gestures of regret would have set a good tone at the end, but there’s nothing really to see here (just his hand when the other kendoka passes him, but that’s not enough for me).
Beeing a good example for younger/other kendoka is such an important factor when you are member of a national team…
I remeber the Spanish male team loosing against Belgium on Saturday and the spanish taisho punching the floor with his Kote in anger and frustration directly after the last match. The team manager or coach immediately ordered the taisho to show more respect and to control his feelings.
Even if the taisho showed a lack of Reiho at that moment, I was not that upset, because I saw that the spanish team took care of themselves and their manners.
This is what I really missed concerning the throw action we discuss here.
Was looking for this kind of comment, Right after throw was made hungarian briskly created some distance from kendoka that was on ground because, well we can only discuss reason for it based on assumptions. Im 95% sure that you can not perform such a movement without doing it beforehands at least once or twice. There was and “is” such technique in Kendo and it is still practiced BUT in controlled enviroment where opponent is aware of possibility of such movement and can adapt his body to avoid serious consequences. Hungarian could perform such technique, he was aware that his opponent might have never seen or even heard of such movement YET he took the risk to win and create opportunity of fatal outcome.
Though living on streets and knowing its rules i know what sometimes you have to do for victory. This is discipline not a street fight you dont fight for food or survival here so so breaking the rules is just pure arrogance.
I was just a participant in the event and im probably less competent than Shinpan but if call was mine bassoku would be in place.
My main question though is not why he performed such a trick but rather who instructed him to do it. I have a hunch but thats pretty much it.
There was a similar waza in pre-war Kendo.
I have seen it on Kendo Nippon Magazine about 20 years ago…
So IMHO was intentional
With all respect i wanted to share my idea : I believe Neil Adelman`s post is a great explanation… i believe trying to justify this act by saying that Kendo is “Budo“ ect … is a bit “oldtimer“! If so hitting the opponents unprotected parts or kicking them intentionally or things like this (are we cage fighting? ) will all be explained as “well this is budo…“ what i think is keeping a strong kamae in a stuation like this requires more courage than flipping the opponent in this manner …lets not get eaten by our egos …
it is 2013 and our life is not depending on the techniques that we know when we are out in the street, we are trying to understand budo but may never %100 live it, it is pointless to act like someone on the battle field who can do anything to survive… where is Rei! ? Lets say that the opponent was fatally injured … than what would be happening Mr.Tough guy?
Interesting. Thank you for sharing. From someone that wears ‘white pajamas’ I’d file this under ‘Winning the battle only to lose the war.’ A short-sited manuever/gimmick…
http://vimeo.com/64315448#at=2
I absolutely agree with your post, and would only like to add one little thing: not only to we practise on hard floors, but WE DO NOT LEARN HOW TO FALL! I think this aspect is pretty important, for if learning how to fall was an element of Kendo, the throw would have been somehow “justified”. Since we do NOT practise proper falling techniques, however, this throw was not only unnecessary, but, as others mentioned, quite dangerous.
And, even though being one of those who bruises even if you look at me the wrong way, I am neither a fan of violence, nor am I a sissy girl who can’t take a punch. But there is a difference between accidentally hitting unprotected parts of the body (happens to me more often than I’d like…) and intentionally risking the opponent’s health…
Hmmm thats why more and more im missing the kendo classes and going to MMA…..
this throw was delliberate!
i dont aprove throwing in Kendo, no mather of budo. as esmevds said , we do not learn to fall…
Kendo is a sport of respect with rules. If we allow throwing whats next? kicking , biting???
Kendo should be newer the less safe…with that throw you can serioussly injure opponent. for what victory, for medal? we are not in war, opponents are not our enemys , just opponents!
It’s a pity.
Sadly I see in modern kendo an increasing violence for its own sake.
The problem is simple : it is forbidden to do such things in shiai. The rules are provided by the ZNKR. If the rules are incomplete about intended violence, the ZNKR shoud update the rules.
Deashibarai is a good example. It is a specific technique with some teachers (japanese police ?). The kenshi are prepared to that. The context is not the same.
This looks as though it was clearly intentional but not, I think, premeditated. this would imply that he set out to complete this technique before he began the match.The technique is kani basami, or crab pinch. It’s a judo technique that is used by hockey players, rugby players etc.
I do think that in his defence we should also take into account that he was clearly overcome by his opponent and as such it looks to me as though an instinctive reaction took place. Yes, it was dangerous but I think that the culprit reacted out of some element of fear and reverted to type. It has been pointed out that he used to be an ice hockey player and this would explain his actions under pressure.
Kendo is indeed about learning a ‘Way’ and not about learning to kill as such. Because of this I think that the kendoka in question would more than likely agree that he has some learning to do; national team member or not. We are all on the path but some are further along than others.
Now for the referees, I completely agree with their interpretation of how they should apply the sanctions. This was not about being inexperienced but more about applying the spirit of the kendo way and allowing the march to continue because nobody was injured to the extent that they couldn’t carry on.
From someone who has retired from wearing the white pyjamas 🙂
The technique was not kani basami. Kani basami is flying scissors, and is currently an illegal technique in judo. I’m not sure what to call what he did, it doesn’t have a direct analog in modern judo. Ironically, that technique would result in disqualification in judo for both a direct attack to the legs and also for endangering the opponent’s neck. The fact that it would be a DQ in judo and yet was a hansoku in this case tells you something. FIK needs to address this situation, I believe.
OK, after having the chance to see the video again I can see that I was completely wrong. It does look totally intentional. I think initially my brain would not accept that somebody would actually do that deliberately.
Well beyond any acceptable kendo behaviour.
I would just like to say thank you as Geoff Sensei’s blog always ends with a witty phrase no matter how heavy the theme is.
The blog uplifts my blue Monday and pushes me towards my Tuesday’s hard Keiko.
Thank you again.
Hello Geoff
Thank you for continuing the conversation from you last post to this one.
Couple of reflexions here.
We have to remember the five constant virtues of human-heartedness – gojo – represented by the five pleats we all were on our hakama.
There are righteousness – gi; propriety – rei; wisdom – chi and good faith/trustworthiness -shin.
Those are part of our Kendo Principles and to have them present at all time we wear the hakama with the five pleats.
Kendo is all about inner enrichment and refinement of our kendo skills and mind, among other things.
Kendo shiai, should allow you to show the refinement of your techniques – waza. To have the pleasure of constant learning and improving your techniques.
Kendo shiai, should not; at least on my personal view, be winning at all cost. Like we experienced in the last few KWC and the latest EKC.
Whatever took place during that match, either premeditated or not, accidental reflex movement or not; the clear point was that not remorse was shown afterwords. No regards for the well being of another kenshi was there at all. That in my view said a lot of somebody personality.
The second reflexion, is that we should all debate and learn from this incident, specially those who are shimpan. Was hansoku enough penalty? What if that action ended in a severe injured kenshi, then what?
What will take place if that action does take place again and we do have an severe injury.
From all the comments I saw in Facebook, Kendoinfo.net, etc; I did not run into one that present a case to review the Kendo Shimpan rules on how to judge this kind of action next time around.
Cheers – Gabriel
I personally find the incident a bit disheartening. I have always said that Kendo has a way to weed out a certain type of people for the most part, This is my view:
1. This was a suckerpunch – It would be equivalent to pulling a baseball bat at a boxing match, the opponent would never have expected this technicque in the controlled environment of a shiaijo. Is nasty and underhanded.
2. It was outright irresponsible – This happened while fighting on a hard wood floor with a helmet that does not protect the back of the skull
3. The instinctiveness is irrelevant – Because even if it had been instinctive he showed no regret, walking away giving your back to the opponent is fairly derogatory and insulting
4. He is an experienced player – He may have played ice hockey but I am sure he also spent many hours in the Dojo, where 99.999% of the time throwing technicques are not used. Is hard to believe this was a pavlovian reaction.
5. His opponents composure is commendable – I am not sure if many of us would have reacted with such control. He is a credit to his team and his teachers.
I understand the referees reaction but in my opinion: He either should apologize for such behaviour in a competition of that reach and nature or he should be prevented from taking part on the next European event.
Regardless of how you feel about martial arts and being able to take a knock, we should not allow players to endanger others beyond our shiai parameters.
I remember watching this for the first time – my jaw literally dropped for a couple of seconds.
This is European kendo championships – not dojo training. Even in dojo, i feel he would be excluded from training. Let us not forget our duty to take care of others during training. So why would this be any different in a championship. You would think we would take even greater care? Apparently not. The shine of medal outshines the glow of virtue it seems…
I feel that mere hansoku didn’t cut it. Think about it: he could’ve seriously hurt the other guy. He could’ve fallen on his head, on his shoulder… he didn’t – but i’ve seen people get broken ribs from a misplaced tsuki. I feel this is almost sending a message: “Sure, this is legitimate tactic to confuse opponent and gain upper hand when match is not going that great for you. It costs only 1/2 a point, so in the long run, it is applicable in certain situations.”
If i was a taicho of the Check(i think) team – i would’ve politely asked for a disqualification. Since i would never get it, i would at least ask shimpans and/or their taicho to even out the points in matches and let me do encho with someone of their choice. I would never let my team go to shiai against such a team, now having seen their standards. Maybe the rest all have beautiful, perfect kendo… but maybe they will hurt someone. At the end of the day, I’ll take health of my buddies over winning a match.
> If i was a taicho of the Check(i think) team
Swiss… CHE = Confederation Helvetica
I want to share a personal reflexion about the values of kendo.
Since I pratice kendo, I lost a lot in the dojo.
I grow more experimented so I lost much more.
after some years of praticing, I still lost a lot, but in a better way.
Later when I will be much more old, I hope to be more refined and experimented, but I am sure that day I will not need to win anymore.
This is not my thing as I hate ‘ Mr bloggies’ but being in a key position I observed the incident and felt that something should be said in response to all those ‘slo mo youtube freaks’. My take is that an unusual action happened which was possibly confrontational, but we don’t have instant video replay to analyse or a referee in the sky to interpret what happened at that instant or advise accordingly.. The Shinpan shunin didn’t intervene and the Shinpan applied a penalty – Hansoku after Gogi according to their perception and interpretation of what took place according to the rules. So you can think basically what you like as we can all act as ‘youtube’ judges and jury after the event, but its gone now and if it really is an issue for you then please raise it through the appropriate channels, which if you really care I’m sure you’ll find..
ドイツでの欧州剣道大会は全く見てません。なので、的外れな内容でしたら、お許し下さい。ヘルシンキで開催された前々回の欧州剣道大会を実際に自分の目で見た時に正直なところ礼法がしっかりと身についていない選手がまだまだ多く日本のいわゆる市民大会ぐらいの水準程度なのではないかと感じました。ドイツでの大会では、各国の選手らが礼法を身につけ、前々回の大会よりも水準が高くなったことも考えられますが、さほど変わってはいないのではないでしょうか。
日本でも暴力行為を試合で見かけることは多々ありますが、理由はやはり師範の指導に問題があるか、あるいは、師範自体がそもそもいないか、この二点にあるのではないでしょうか。高体連の試合を見ていて、暴力行為をするのは勝利に過度に偏重する中堅層の高校の選手といった個人的な感覚があります。
自分なりの剣道スタイルを持つことは、ライフスタイルとしては充実した感覚を得ることができます。しかし、一人よがりの剣道をしている方が少なからず欧州でもいらっしゃると察します。やはり、現代剣道に対する一定の共通知識・認識のある師範がいることが一番の解決の道なのではないでしょうか。欧州での師範不足の問題について、妥協案として、試合というよりかは講習会・勉強会という形での交流をより積極的に行う必要があろうかと思います。また、師範の誤った認識を正す校正の機会も必要な場合もあろうかと思います。そういった開かれた環境は日本にも未だなかなか出来てない状況というのは同じだと思います。
適切な形での剣道交流の発展を願ってやみません。
I’m sorry for writing in Japanese. I forgot English at all!
Well this seems to have got a lot intrest, i viewed the incident several times on the internet and it seems to me that the Hungarian player acted intentionally, i can understand that in the heat of things we all may do things that we know are wrong unintentionally, but this certinally looked intentional, especially when you view his attitude after ( turning his back and walking away) personally i think that he got away lightly, if i were the referee in that match , i would have automatically disqualified him, afterall he put his opponents life in danger, what if the other guy had broken his neck?
As for the poor gay that got thrown, i can only admire his composure, if that had happened to me i would certinally have reacted with a lot less dignity.
We can only hope that the Hungarian player will apologise and in future play the kendo he is capable off.
There have been a lot of good comments. I’d just like to pick on one thing (which I am writing from the perspective of a current kendoka and former judoka). Not only do kendoka not learn how to fall, but as has been mentioned, wearing bogu would make it very difficult to fall correctly. The do would be restrictive enough (and possibly lead to further injury), but the men would absolutely restrict proper falling. The men buton (flaps) would get in the way, but in particular, the men tsuki tare (throat protector) would restrict one from keeping one’s head away from the floor upon impact (i.e. touching the chin on the chest). Thus, rather than taking the impact with one’s back and arm(s), it would be likely that the very first point of impact would be the back of the skull, which could obviously be extremely damaging, if not fatal. Obviously, falling on a hard surface would make it even more dangerous.
It’s actually quite amazing that the kendoka who was thrown in that video didn’t get very seriously injured. There is so much that could have gone wrong.
この写真の技は古流剣道技 面剥ぎという技です。(menhagi 1pon)
I have read and heard quite a bit about this and until today I haven’t seen the video. This was partly due to video being made private and copies being deleted, but also because I wanted to trust the correct decision had been made at the time.
My first impressions from reading the comments here and other forums was that maybe it was a bit of a fluke incident, maybe blown out of proportion and perhaps the referees decision was proportionate. However, I have just watched the incident ( http://youtu.be/oiERKBW00pI ).
The Hungarian kendoka clearly with control draws his opponent towards him, lets go of his shinai with his left hand, bends down and holds both legs of his opponent below the knee then lifts with both hands whilst standing up and moving forward.
Now, having studied karate and other martial arts for almost 30 years I was immediately impressed by the smooth, well practised and precise technique used. The movement was fluid and effortless and most importantly VERY clearly deliberate! His actions after the throw were that of someone who has performed this technique before (a lot). Anyone doing this by accident would be shocked or surprised not nonchalant and apparently unapologetic.
At least 2 of the referees had a clear view of this incident, after all they are very experienced and renown for spotting some of the most detailed of actions. I am at a loss as to how such a deliberate and importantly a dangerous infraction of the rules can be missed.
However, I do agree that to view an incident in slow motion after the event makes reviewing it much easier. Detail can be reviewed and analysed, slowed, rewound and replayed making a judgement far simpler but most importantly accurate and correct.
Maybe retrospective action is required in instances such as this in the same way professional (and non professional) sporting associations do (e.g. the Luis Suarez fine and ban for biting during a football match judged retrospectively after the event using 3rd party video footage). After all this was CLEARLY dangerous conduct and could easily be interpreted by some as bringing kendo into disrepute.
very good point about the “retrospective action“… i believe the referees decision also has to be justified in a situation like this … still cannot understand how come this is just “a hansoku“ ?
Hansoku was the right decision, during the EKC with the current kendo regulations. If you want a harsher penalty, the FIK must change the shiai regulations.
i wouldnt use the word “harsher“here as it gives a wrong impression … i would say more “appropriate“penalty for the given circumstances…
As I pointed out earlier, hansoku was not the only option. The senshu could have been disqualified under article 16 for taking action that was considered insulting or offensive towards the opponent. As I can’t imagine much more offensive than a deliberate attempt to injure, that is how I would have ruled had I been on the floor.
Incidentally I witnessed something similar at the Bowden Cup last year which was clearly accidental.
As any of the other Kendoka who attended will confirm, the floor for that particular event was extremely slippery. Kendo on an ice rink is not something I ever thought I would have to do.
What happened there was one went of a men cut and went through. As he turned round he was literally still sliding in the same direction and ended up sliding backwards (I witnessed this many times that day) seeing as the cut had failed, his opponent closed in to perform his own men cut and just as he did, he slipped and fell forwards onto all fours. Thus his opponent fell over his back, just as he stood up again (obviously unable to see his opponent closing in and wanting to get back into the fight) this caused his opponent to flip over but he was lucky in that he kind of slid forwards on his knees.
Pretty much exactly the same thing.
The main difference was the behaviour of the perpetrator though. He immediately went over and helped his opponent to his feet, apologising profusely.